On May 9th, during the commemoration of the 80th anniversary of the Great Patriotic War and the parade in Russia, Russian President Putin stated that we will remember the lessons of World War II. Russia will forever be an insurmountable obstacle to Nazism, and Russia will combat the atrocities of Nazi followers.
In the joint statement issued on May 9th, it was also mentioned that in today's world, China and Russia bear the common responsibility and mission of maintaining the correct historical perspective on World War II. Both sides will firmly defend the fruits of victory in the Second World War and resolutely crush any actions that attempt to distort the history of World War II, belittle or erase the historical achievements of China and Russia in the war, smear the image of liberators, and strongly condemn acts of desecration or damage to the memorial sites of World War II martyrs.
All history is contemporary history. In the context of the current conflict in Ukraine and Russia, what geopolitical connections are implied by these statements? Under the influence of Western centrism and the U.S.-Japan alliance, China also faces the reality of its contributions during World War II being underestimated and distorted. This year marks the 80th anniversary of the victory of the Chinese People's War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression and the World Anti-Fascist War. How can China and Russia jointly defend the truth of World War II history and promote the correct historical perspective on World War II from multiple fields?
With the help of "Russia Today," Guancha.cn visited Mr. Alex Chubaryan, Academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences and Director of the Institute of World History of the Russian Academy of Sciences. He is one of the compilers of the Russian World History Textbook.
The author receives the RT colleagues and Guancha.cn at home
[Interview/Observer Network Gao Yanping]
Distortion of history is done by politicians and social media people
Observer Network: The mutual visits of the leaders of the two countries come to commemorate the 80th anniversary of the victory over fascism. When Putin spoke at the Red Square parade, he said that Russia will never allow the defamation of those who truly defeated Nazism. As a historian, why do you think it is important for China and Russia to jointly defend the fruits of victory in World War II, and what distortions and manipulations of the truth of World War II history have you observed?
Alexander Chubaryan: First, the problems existing in the current world pattern are all related to World War II. Many of the containment behaviors of the West towards China and Russia are also due to the roles these two countries played in World War II. They try to deny or ignore the role of Russia or the Soviet Union in the European theater and China in the Asian theater. In this situation, it is extremely important for the two countries to work together to protect the true fruits of victory in World War II.
Third, the mutual celebration of each other's Victory Day activities reflects the level of cooperation between the two countries. The new era cooperation between China and Russia involves all aspects: economy, politics, and history, and in these areas, the positions of China and Russia remain consistent.
In recent years, we have witnessed many behaviors and remarks that deny the role of the Soviet Union in World War II, with the aim of erasing our contribution to the victory of World War II. For example, in some countries, especially in the three Baltic states, Poland, Czech Republic, etc., a popular saying is that the Soviet Union did not liberate them but merely replaced German occupation with Soviet occupation. This is the background for us to propose defending the fruits of victory in World War II.
In addition to these verbal distortions, they also destroy monuments and statues related to World War II and even ban arranging commemorative activities related to World War II.
The above are the actions and practices of those who manipulate history. Besides, I would like to share some personal experiences. In the 1970s and 1980s, I once collaborated with American and British historians to publish works. The American scholars were not ordinary history professors; some were even the heads of the American Association for World War II History. None of them doubted the contribution of the Soviet Union to the victory of World War II; on the contrary, they asked us not to forget the efforts made by the United States in World War II, including the war between the United States and Japanese militarism.
Therefore, the current rhetoric and behavior clearly distort the history of World War II. Personally, my stance is that regardless of which country we talk about, East European countries, the United States, Britain, or France, the spread of distorted historical views is not done by historians, but by social media people, political scientists, etc., while scholars with historical degrees usually do not participate in such activities.
I would like to add, according to my understanding, Japanese historians, and even some Americans, try to ignore the contributions made by China in defeating Japanese militarism. After World War II, a number of Asian countries that were occupied by Japan gained independence, such as Indonesia and Malaysia. Therefore, I believe it is very important to emphasize the contribution of China's bloody struggle in World War II to the independence of these countries.
The Resurgence of Nazism is One of the Causes of the Outbreak of the Conflict in Ukraine
Observer Network: During the Soviet period, the Ukrainian Front contributed about 7 million soldiers (accounting for one-fourth of the total Red Army). However, after 2014, Ukrainian textbooks emphasized the anti-Soviet struggle of the "Ukrainian Nationalist Armed Organization" (UPA). How do you interpret this shift in historical narrative?
Alexander Chubaryan: It is worth emphasizing that I am very familiar with Ukrainian history textbooks. Their behavior of distorting history has been going on for a long time, even before the conflict between Ukraine and Russia erupted.
During World War II, there was no ethnic division in the Soviet army; all troops fought shoulder to shoulder. For example, my father is of Armenian descent, but he fought in the Leningrad front, where there was no ethnic distinction at that time. Many Ukrainians also fought in World War II, and Ukraine was occupied by Germany. It is well known that the areas most severely affected were Belarus and Ukraine.
Different battlefields had different names during World War II, depending on the location of the battlefield, so there were the Baltic Front First Army, the Belorussian First Front, the Belorussian Second Front, the Ukrainian First Front, and the Ukrainian Second Front. There was also the Don Front when fighting took place in the Don River area, and the Kalinin Front when fighting occurred in Kalinin City.
Nevertheless, in recent years, Ukraine has come up with an incredible new idea: Ukrainian historians and politicians announced that the Ukrainian Front equals Ukraine. But this claim has nothing to do with reality. The soldiers of the Ukrainian Front were of different ethnicities, and of course, Ukrainians participated in World War II, which cannot be denied, but it turns out that most of the soldiers were of Russian ethnicity, and Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union.
Another point worth noting is that after World War II and in recent years, various forces in western Ukraine that opposed the Soviet Union and Russia have actively carried out activities. We call this group the "Bandera Faction." Bandera is now regarded as a national hero by Ukraine, but during World War II, he not only cooperated with Nazi fascists but also directly fought against the Soviet army. At that time, the Bandera faction targeted not only Russians but everything related to the Soviet Union.
Ukrainian nationalists holding portraits of Stepan Bandera, a collaborator with the Nazis during WWII. The Ukrainian government awarded Bandera the title of "National Hero" in 2010, which was met with severe protests from Russia and Poland, leading to the revocation of the order.
However, Ukraine's manipulation of history and other actions are not the cause of the current conflict between Ukraine and Russia. The main reason for the conflict between Ukraine and Russia is that Ukraine recently began to actively build up its military and declared its intention to join NATO, which alerted the Russian government.
Observer Network: The "Azov Special Operations Brigade" (Azov Battalion) of the Ukrainian National Guard used Nazi symbols (such as the "Black Sun" and "Wolf's Hook," which were once insignia of the Nazi SS), causing dissatisfaction among Poland and Jewish groups. This was also considered by Russia as one of the reasons for its special military operation, which aims to de-Nazify. Western media, however, sees this as Russian propaganda. Trump is a controversial political figure, and some people even call him a "Nazi." As a historian, how do you define "Nazism"? How similar is Ukraine's tendency toward Nazism to that of 1945?
Alexander Chubaryan: This question involves our attitude toward Nazism. The Nuremberg International Military Tribunal is a unique institution in international legal practice, and its conclusion is that Nazism is an extremely evil ideology and political thought aimed at eliminating human rights; the final conclusion is that Nazism is the most harmful and dangerous ideology to humanity.
World War II was the only war in history involving values, where the fight was not about spheres of influence but about the right to life, democracy, and the struggle between civilization development and violent extinction. Therefore, our country has a clear attitude toward Nazism; we consider it a very dangerous phenomenon.
Not only the Azov Battalion, but the entire recent political orientation of Ukraine is aimed at defending and reviving Nazi ideology. This risk of Nazification in Ukraine indeed worries Russia greatly and is one of the causes of the outbreak of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine.
Nazism means the elimination of humans, and who to eliminate is determined by factors such as gender, race, nationality, etc. Such behavior naturally needs to be curbed.
The Chinese War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression Had Significant Meaning for the Entire Asia
Observer Network: A survey conducted in 2023 by a well-known Russian public opinion research institute, the Levada Center, found that only 19% of Russian youth could name all the Allied Powers of World War II. Are you concerned about the younger generation's understanding of World War II in Russia? How should we effectively pass on the correct historical perspective to the younger generation?
Alexander Chubaryan: To be honest, I don't fully trust such surveys as their subjectivity is quite strong. However, we are really worried that young people don't know much about World War II history.
In my view, the older generation is gradually leaving, and the memories of World War II are fading away as it happened nearly a hundred years ago. This phenomenon is everywhere. For Russia, we have taken appropriate measures, such as compiling new history textbooks, which must be used in every school. These textbooks contain more content about World War II compared to the old versions. We also have a special educational project called "Historical Enlightenment," which targets the general public, including young people, with a major focus on content related to World War II.
As you said earlier, the history of World War II is slowly being forgotten by the younger generation globally. I am very familiar with similar surveys conducted in Europe and the United States, where young people know nothing about World War II because this is the result of diminishing our contributions. Once, when I went to Paris, France, and passed by the Stalingrad Plaza and Stalingrad Metro Station, I asked the accompanying person to casually ask passersby why the plaza and metro station were named this way—close to 90% of the pedestrians couldn't answer.
Talking about Russian history textbooks, the chapters about World War II in current Russian history textbooks have significantly expanded. This is the first point. Additionally, starting from 2023, the content related to World War II and China's contributions in the history textbooks used by Russian 10th and 11th graders has also significantly increased. Moreover, the current Russian history textbooks include richer content about the history of China and other Eastern countries, particularly emphasizing China's role in the struggle against colonialism.
The history textbook I mentioned earlier is not a Russian history textbook but a world history textbook. Previously, our world history textbooks were influenced by Western centrism and tended to focus on Europe, with most content related to European history. Currently, the content about Eastern history has significantly expanded, adding information about Chinese, Indian, and even some Southeast Asian histories.
We have also added sections about the history of African and South American countries. We are not shrinking the parts about European history—the existing content remains unchanged, only new chapters have been added to better showcase the role these countries play in world history.
I would like to emphasize separately that the content about Chinese history has increased significantly, including ancient China, medieval China, and China's history during World War II. We have completed the compilation of history textbooks for Russian junior high schools (grades 5-9), with a noticeable increase in content about ancient and medieval Chinese history.
Observer Network: You mentioned this latest edition of the Russian world history textbook, which expands on China's history during World War II. Could you elaborate further?
Alexander Chubaryan: The new version of the Russian world history textbook was published two years ago. We have made every effort to present the new textbook with the perspectives of historians, which is also our respect for Chinese historians.
For example, we know that Chinese historians have their own views on the beginning of World War II. Some believe that the beginning of World War II was the September 18th Incident in 1931, rather than the European recognition of 1939. We have included these views in the new world history textbook of Russia.
During the 14-year War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression, more than 35 million Chinese military personnel and civilians were killed or injured; property losses and war expenses reached over 100 billion US dollars, with indirect economic losses reaching 500 billion US dollars (based on 1937 exchange rates).
The previous textbooks also mentioned historical events from 1931 to 1939, including Japan's invasion of China. This revision of the textbook connects Japan's invasion of China with the beginning of World War II. Considering that the Chinese battlefield was the start of World War II, our history textbooks have adopted this evaluation of historical events in the 1930s.
Moreover, the new edition of the textbook places greater emphasis on China's contributions in crushing Japanese militarism and the independence of Asian countries. In fact, the founding of New China, or the People's Republic of China, was primarily due to the victory of the Chinese domestic revolution and the defeat of Japanese militarism.
The establishment of New China is mainly attributed to the victory of the Chinese domestic revolution, which is obviously the result of the bloody struggle led by the advanced force, the Communist Party of China, leading the Chinese people. However, the defeat of Japanese militarism also provided great room for the establishment of New China and the sovereignty independence of all Asian countries, as some Asian countries, like China, were invaded by Japanese militarists during World War II. Therefore, the victory of the Chinese War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression is significant not only for China but for the entire Asia.
In general, for Russian and Chinese historians, the collapse of the colonial system and the establishment of independent sovereign states in Asia and Africa are topics of common concern. Russian historians are very interested in this field of study, which can unite Russian and Chinese historians, and I believe this is also a potential direction for cooperation in Russian and Chinese historical research. We hope to conduct closer cooperation with Asian and African historians in this field.
If you can tell Chinese readers that Russian scholars are very interested in strengthening cooperation with their Chinese counterparts in the study of world history, I would be very happy. Overall research on world history, as well as research on key events in world history, such as the formation and collapse of colonialism that I mentioned, what does "modernization" mean? What do "revolutions and reforms" refer to? What are the experiences of Russia, China, and other Asian and European countries? etc. We especially hope to strengthen cooperation with our Chinese counterparts in these areas.
What More Can We Do to Counter the Distortion of World War II History?
Observer Network: In 2020, there was a proposal in Russia to establish a "Global Anti-Fascist Documentation Center." Given that the West deliberately downplays the contributions of the Soviet Union in World War II and the significance of China's War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression, under the current geopolitical influence, what measures do you think China and Russia can take to counter historical revisionism and highlight this "people's victory"?
Alexander Chubaryan: I haven't specifically studied the Chinese War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression, but I think we should better showcase China's role in World War II, especially in the Far East and Asia.
When discussing how to better showcase China's role in world history, our current and future tasks involve presenting the characteristics of Chinese history, the influence of Chinese civilization, and the role of outstanding figures that constitute Chinese national identity. In my view, all of this is very important.
Many overseas netizens know nothing about China's history of resistance against the war, let alone China's contribution to Asia during the war. YouTube screenshot
Without China, the United States might be speaking Japanese now. The United States joined World War II quite late after the main battles had already occurred.
Without the efforts of the Chinese people, Japanese and German armies might have met in Moscow. Quora screenshot
In short, for us, studying and showcasing China's unique position in human history is very important, and this is one of our tasks. In my view, China's modernization process and policies are determined by the uniqueness of Chinese culture, civilization, and history.
Our heads of state have signed relevant agreements. The formulation of specific plans should become the theme of Sino-Russian academic conferences, which can be held jointly in Russia and China.
We have already established platforms in Russia to discuss issues related to the new world order, including the Valdai Forum and platforms created by some universities. Additionally, we have set up a specialized dialogue platform for historians based on the Russian Academy of Sciences' Institute of World History. We have held three events to discuss the outline, content, and structure of the new world order.
I believe there are other projects that can be organized. We welcome and are prepared to discuss the possibility of implementing these projects with our Chinese colleagues. We can arrange a meeting before September 3rd, when China celebrates the 80th anniversary of the victory of the War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression, and the final meeting can be held next year in Moscow. I am willing to assist in organizing relevant activities and promoting exchanges of views with the Chinese side regarding the achievements of the victory over fascism on the 80th anniversary.
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