June 6, 2025, Anastasia Likhacheva, Dean of the School of World Economy and International Affairs at the National Research University Higher School of Economics (HSE), a renowned institution in Russia, visited China. Wang Wen, Dean of Chongyang Institute for Financial Studies at Renmin University of China, engaged in dialogue with her on the topic of "New Opportunities for Sino-Russian Corporate Cooperation," exploring ways to break through challenges and achieve win-win paths in Sino-Russian corporate cooperation.
Core viewpoints:
· In recent years, Sino-Russian trade has rapidly developed, particularly over the past three years. However, the potential for cooperation between the two countries is far from reaching its upper limit. Bilateral trade volume is not only limited to $250 billion but still has enormous room for development. Energy and raw materials are currently key areas of cooperation, while emerging fields such as water resources, agriculture, and biodiversity have broad prospects for development.
· The scale of mutual investment between China and Russia is not commensurate with their strategic trust status. Investment totals are low, urgently requiring enhanced mutual trust and expansion of investment areas.
· Russia's foreign investment philosophy is shifting, actively seeking diversified layouts, with agriculture and joint production having great potential. Foreign investments rely not only on economic data but also on high-quality partners and complete legal, regulatory, and financial environments.
· Russia has profound concerns about security due to its geographical lack of natural barriers, which drives it to pay high attention to geo-security and considers security as a prerequisite for conducting economic and other foreign cooperation.
The full transcript is as follows:
Wang Wen: Dear online friends, in-person friends, and media friends, good afternoon! Welcome all to the 17th session of the "Mingde Strategic Dialogue." Today, we have the honor of inviting a very special guest - Professor Anastasia Likhacheva, Dean of the School of World Economy and International Affairs at the Russian National Research University Higher School of Economics (HSE).
I have known Anastasia for many years. I have often listened to her insightful views on Sino-Russian relations and international strategy at the Eastern Economic Forum, Valdai Annual Meetings, and other international conferences. Today, she is here at the "Mingde Strategic Dialogue," and we will discuss a practical topic — "New Opportunities and Future for Sino-Russian Corporate Cooperation." Five hours ago, I just arrived in Beijing from Moscow, and the flight from Moscow to Beijing was filled with Chinese entrepreneurs and Russian entrepreneurs. Over the past three years, a large number of Chinese enterprises have gone to Moscow to seek cooperation opportunities, and many Russian entrepreneurs have come to China to find more cooperation opportunities.
Today, Professor Likhacheva wants to talk to everyone about this topic. What do you most impressively remember about current Sino-Russian cooperation? How do you evaluate this cooperation?
Anastasia Likhacheva (Anastasia Likhacheva): Thank you for your introduction earlier. As long-time friends, we have witnessed various stages of Sino-Russian cooperation together. Previously, we learned that the trade volume between China and Russia had grown fourfold over many years. Given my economic background, I will now analyze from a numerical perspective. Nowadays, the mindset of Sino-Russian corporate cooperation is changing.
We know that before 2015, and even earlier, when we tried to persuade very successful businessmen, intelligent individuals, and senior officials to increase investment in Sino-Russian economic cooperation, we often felt somewhat awkward. While mentioning political or security issues did not encounter much resistance, the response was usually that Russia should focus on Europe, and many resources were primarily invested there. Sino-Russian discussions in the fields of trade and investment have been long and deep.
There is a very long border between China and Russia, including parts along rivers. Therefore, during the development of bilateral relations, there was a certain degree of mutual suspicion. Although Sino-Russian cooperation started late, cooperation is always better than no cooperation. Moreover, all these companies hope to find new cooperation opportunities, which left a deep impression on me.
Wang Wen: Over the past ten years, Sino-Russian trade cooperation has been growing slowly, but it has developed rapidly over the past three years. From the data, in 2023, the trade volume between China and Russia reached $240.1 billion, increasing to $244.8 billion in 2024. Recently, some people believe that the trade volume between China and Russia seems to have approached its upper limit, with a maximum of no more than $250 billion. I don't fully agree with this view. As someone who frequently travels between China and Russia, I think there is still great potential between the two countries. Everyone generally cares about what kind of economic and trade cooperation potential exists between China and Russia?
Anastasia Likhacheva (Anastasia Likhacheva): I completely agree with your statement. Based solely on the data between our two countries, it is insufficient. In terms of trade, energy is the main driver. At the same time, Russia is constantly seeking new opportunities. Despite some pressure in bilateral relations, cooperation in the fields of energy and raw materials is undoubtedly crucial, and we attach great importance to this.
In my research on Sino-Russian relations, I first focus on water resources because they naturally connect the two countries. Russia is one of the countries with the richest water resources in the world, ranking second globally. Not only does China and Russia have economic cooperation, but they also cooperate extensively in security, sovereignty, food, biodiversity, and other fields, all of which are closely related to water resources. Any water-intensive industries, water resource development, or third-party export cooperation have broad prospects. If water resources become tense, it may affect the relationship between the two countries in some strategic fields. Therefore, water resources issues have huge potential in corporate cooperation and bilateral relations and deserve high attention.
We need to be aware that for many Chinese enterprises, Russia remains a relatively unfamiliar country. It is well-known that Russia spans 11 time zones, which not only reflects its vast territory but also means that we face 11 different economic opportunities, indicating that the demand in this region varies greatly in various aspects.
In recent years, the service trade sector has also developed rapidly. Frankly speaking, the driving force behind key strategic Sino-Russian cooperation and economic development does not come solely from traditional commodity trade but also includes joint collaboration in production areas, which aligns with our actual needs. We have already seen many points of convergence and rich opportunities. For example, both sides have obvious advantages in diverse resources and technological complementarity, and there is no direct competition between them in these fields.
In domestic markets, there are certain competitive problems among enterprises, which is a very common phenomenon. But if we can make efforts to explore overseas markets, there is an opportunity to find common consumer groups.
Wang Wen: The cooperation potential between China and Russia is far beyond $250 billion. Over the past three years, I have been to Russia more than ten times. My impression is that the investment scale between China and Russia is relatively small. I often mention a figure and have shared it in lectures at your institute: Over the past decade, China invests approximately $150 billion annually overseas, but the annual flow to Russia is only $1.5 billion, accounting for only 1% of China's total global investment; similarly, Russia's investment in China is also small, with China attracting approximately $150 billion in foreign investment annually, but Russia's average annual investment in China is only about $20 million, less than 0.2%.
This investment ratio clearly does not match the high level of strategic mutual trust and deep friendship in political and security cooperation between China and Russia. Therefore, I would like to ask, what are the expectations for future investment in this field? What suggestions and ideas do you have to promote two-way investment between China and Russia?
Anastasia Likhacheva (Anastasia Likhacheva): Yes, our university indeed has its own research methods. In terms of the investment field, my colleagues also have their own calculation methods, which are often not based on central bank data but rather on specific details, especially investment details, as well as commercial and enterprise cooperation situations. From these perspectives, we found that China's investment in Russia may have exceeded $1.5 billion.
Regarding Russia's direct or indirect investment in China, you mentioned some data earlier. We have also collected more relevant information and searched for specific cooperation cases at the enterprise and company levels. In fact, Russia's investment in China, including joint production, is also improving, but the current scale and cooperation are still far from sufficient.
Russia's outbound investment is changing. In the past, Russia mainly focused on attracting foreign investment into the country, but now the focus is shifting to showcasing diversified investment layouts in some key markets, which is also a strategic choice to promote Russia's outward investment growth.
I believe that with more countries relaxing regulations, mutual understanding will deepen further. For example, agriculture is a very promising cooperation area. I think this will promote more additional production cooperation, especially among neighboring countries.
Wang Wen: Agricultural investment is a field with immense potential at present. I once went to Volgograd in southern Russia, formerly known as Stalingrad. In this city, I met many Chinese people. Southern Russia has fertile land, and about 10,000 to 20,000 Chinese farmers are farming soybeans there. I understand that China depends on imports for about 85% of its soybean needs, mainly from the United States, Brazil, and of course, Russia.
However, current investment in Russian agriculture is very limited. Russian soybeans account for only about 1% to 2% of China's imported soybeans, if my data is correct. This is far from enough, and agricultural investment still has tremendous potential. Therefore, from agricultural investment and other industry investment fields, we should consider how to attract more Chinese people to visit Russia and participate in investment deeply.
Anastasia Likhacheva (Anastasia Likhacheva): Any investment does not depend solely on speeches or economic data provided by banks but is built on trust. I believe this trust stems from the relationship between partners. If you do not know your partner or how to find a good partner, even if there are good economic opportunities, you do not know "which door to knock on."
I believe the most critical step is investing in building a more comprehensive network, especially between Russian and Chinese entrepreneurs. This investment involves not only advancing specific projects or Russia's organizational capabilities but also considering geopolitical factors, showcasing economic opportunities, legal systems, and electronic supervision mechanisms, all of which are important factors in promoting investment.
Investment is not just about data and calculations, nor is it limited to the energy and mining sectors but also includes the agricultural sector we mentioned earlier. There are many participants in the agricultural sector, including some excellent agricultural startup technology companies. We need to promote mutual understanding and awareness. We believe this is a particularly important responsibility and opportunity to help build bridges of trust between both parties. Because without this trust, it is difficult to understand each other's strengths and opportunities in the agricultural sector. Actually, investment opportunities exist, but it is hard to provide support and collaborate with strangers without understanding each other.
Wang Wen: In a sense, Chinese enterprises show great interest in this. Over the past three years, more and more Chinese enterprises and Chinese people have gone to Russia. Statistics show that nearly 848,000 Chinese tourists traveled to Russia in 2024.
Next, let's talk about the current international situation. Regarding this conflict in Ukraine, we all hope it will end soon, which benefits everyone. However, another layer of the situation is still unclear. Please introduce the living conditions in Russia, especially the environment for foreigners, and the related investment environment.
Anastasia Likhacheva (Anastasia Likhacheva): I was born and grew up in Moscow, studied here all my life. My life is quite simple, with little change over the last decade. Moscow is a very comfortable and beautiful city with abundant cultural and sports activities available for participation. Thanks to good urban management planning, Moscow excels not only in culture but also in ecological protection, making it one of the most livable cities in the world.
However, from a business perspective, we have discussions with the Moscow government on how to truly drive some strategic changes in intercity economies. When people mention Moscow, they might first think of the cold winters, but it’s actually not as cold as imagined. Moscow has many warm and comfortable venues, such as cinemas, exhibition halls, and training lectures held by universities, which are all great experiences. The food there is also delicious. If I were to elaborate, I could go on for a very long time because I am very fond of Moscow.
Moreover, I can guarantee that Moscow is very safe. There are thousands of international students and their parents here, who generally feel that the safety situation in Moscow is good. We are very familiar with the living environment in Moscow, and parents are also very concerned about this, so everyone feels very secure here.
Wang Wen: Yesterday, I went to Moscow State University again, and I suddenly noticed the signposts on campus. Since the campus is very large, the signposts are mainly in Russian with Chinese explanations below. Each location’s signpost has only Russian and Chinese languages, no English.
At Sheremetyevo Airport in Moscow, signs are in Russian, Chinese, and English, which is very friendly to Chinese tourists. Since Chinese people like hot water, Russian airports have a designated area marked “Hot Water Available.” I once flew to Kamchatka, which is very remote, located east of Japan, and requires flying four hours northeast from Japan. Upon landing in Kamchatka, I found the airport very small, but upon exiting, I saw the words written in Chinese, “Welcome to Kamchatka.” This shows that in recent years, Russia has been very friendly to China, which made a deep impression on me.
So, my next question is, if Chinese people want to invest or travel to Russia, what details should they pay most attention to in order to help Chinese entrepreneurs, scholars, and researchers better understand Russia?
Anastasia Likhacheva (Anastasia Likhacheva): Entrepreneurs and scholars who want to develop and invest in Russia should focus on finding the right person to answer their questions. During this process, they will encounter many questions, and the quality of the answers determines whether the cooperation can succeed.
Many Chinese people do not know how to conduct projects in Russia, so they need to find high-quality Russian partners who can help solve many problems.
Recently, we have placed great emphasis on promoting business travel. This is not only reflected at the national level but also in Moscow, where many cultural and artistic events are held. Each region has its own key performance indicators (KPIs) aimed at attracting partners, promoting local product exports, and cooperation. Therefore, each governor or mayor pays great attention to the development of their region, hoping to achieve better results and that their efforts will succeed. However, finding partners requires a trustworthy guide who can make the right decisions.
Wang Wen: So, it is more important to visit HSE University. HSE is a newly established top-tier university, very international, and I have been there multiple times.
Now talking about China needing to re-understand Russia, and Russia also needs to re-understand China. Over the years, I have met many Russian friends who continuously study and think about China. From the Russian perspective, what changes have occurred in the academic and intellectual circles' views on China over these years? Among these, what impressed you the most?
Anastasia Likhacheva (Anastasia Likhacheva): Many economists and experts in international relations pay high attention to China because China's role and status on the global stage have undergone significant changes over the past forty years; viewed from a longer historical perspective, this change is even more profound.
Many people are discussing how to understand China's international status and how to communicate with Chinese politicians. There are many traditional viewpoints regarding these questions. For instance, when analyzing the development of modern Chinese technology, it is difficult to make accurate judgments without thoroughly studying China's economy and policies.
Russian academia has become more interdisciplinary in its study of China than ever before. More and more scholars are beginning to delve deeply into learning about China. A few years ago, I also conducted related research, but the results were not significant. Now, I see many young people showing great interest in this topic, and learning Chinese has become very popular. Some high school graduates choose schools based on their Chinese foundation, opting for majors in Chinese law, economics, and technology.
This is a wonderful opportunity. Sino-Russian bilateral cooperation has been very fruitful and should not be limited to regional studies but can expand into more fields. Currently, we see students showing great interest, with more than 700 students from different backgrounds, some specializing in Oriental studies, Asian studies, or Chinese studies. Many students choose Chinese as their research language, while others choose German or Portuguese, but most students prefer to learn Chinese because they believe it offers more opportunities, and learning from China's experience provides them with many inspirations.
Wang Wen: People's University of China has shown increasing interest in Russia, which can be seen from my personal experiences. In the past, I visited the United States and Europe more often, but in the past three years, Russia has become the country I visit most frequently, reflecting the growing attention of China towards Russia. Additionally, People's University of China has many Russian students who play a positive role in promoting cooperation between China and Russia.
From the perspective of the younger generation, we need to understand each other with a common perspective and re-recognize the future of this country. For Chinese youth, it is necessary to rediscover Russia's position and importance in the world. I often tell my students that if Russia were considered a stock, it would be a stock with tremendous potential. It’s like asking you twenty years ago if you would buy property in Beijing. Over the past twenty years, property prices in Beijing have increased more than tenfold, and now Russia’s development potential is as enormous as the growth potential of property prices in Beijing back then.
I once lectured at Moscow State University three years ago. Back then, I saw a house near Moscow State University. It was a 100-square-meter apartment, fully furnished, with a price of around 40,000 RMB per square meter. Now it has risen to 80,000 to 90,000 RMB per square meter, a more than doubling in three years. Therefore, it is indeed necessary for Chinese people to discover Russia’s future development potential and re-recognize Russia. My students and I believe that the best way is to personally visit Russia, feel the resilience and spirit of this great nation, and understand the efforts this country makes to achieve a resurgence and long-term national revival.
I would like to ask Professor Likhacheva, if you were to tell your Russian students that you want to visit China, how would you guide them to discover places in China worth Russian attention?
Anastasia Likhacheva (Anastasia Likhacheva): We have not only discussed this issue but even facilitated on-site visits, as part of a three-year program. We believe that mutual visits are the best way to avoid misunderstandings.
Nowadays, we live in a digital age, facing many changes. Although analyzing data through digital tools is very important and a key part of market research, personally visiting China, engaging face-to-face with the Chinese people, and conducting on-site inspections of different provinces and regions are even more essential.
Besides, you need to come regularly because some places change subtly over time, and only then can you capture clearer signals. After these experiences, you will find that some changes in data science require you to perceive and rediscover with your ears and eyes.
Now Russian students are highly interested in visiting China. Our summer camp has more than 70 students participating, many of whom are undergraduates. After returning to Russia, they said that when they hesitated to choose Chinese as their major, thinking it was very difficult. But after studying and living in China, they became very determined and confident in their choice. I don’t know if they have other opinions, but they will definitely say this experience was very interesting. After seeing China firsthand and participating in cultural exchanges, they all downloaded WeChat. I often tell my Russian students that to promote Sino-Russian cooperation, they first need to download and install WeChat, log in, and communicate and cooperate more conveniently and quickly with Chinese partners.
Wang Wen: I have taught many Russian friends to use WeChat because without WeChat, it is hard to really communicate with Chinese friends. On this trip to Russia, I discovered something new: Chinese cultural products are becoming increasingly popular in the Russian market. The latest hit Chinese movie, "Ne Zha 2: The Rise of the Spirit Boy," was released in Russia and reportedly received a good response. The dance drama "Only Green" that was very popular in China a few years ago was also performed in Moscow, with reportedly very high ticket prices. This shows that Chinese cultural products are becoming increasingly popular in Russia.
However, Chinese people's understanding of Russian culture, to some extent, is still lagging behind. Our understanding of Russian culture mostly remains at the Soviet era. The Russian songs we are familiar with are mostly "Moscow Nights" and "Katyusha," and our understanding of Russian literature is still stuck in the classic writers such as Dostoevsky, Gorky, and Pushkin. Therefore, for us, understanding modern Russian culture is far from enough, especially the excellent novels, films, art, and other cultural products of contemporary Russia.
So, I would like to ask you, next question: If you want to promote contemporary Russian culture to China, from which aspects would you introduce it?
Anastasia Likhacheva (Anastasia Likhacheva): Culture is not only interesting but also opens hearts, allowing us to truly feel the atmosphere and better understand each other's people. Especially in Russia, social and political cultures are deeply rooted in our classical culture and literature. Therefore, I suggest that when you come to Russia, first attend our "Modern Art Festival." There, you can feel the continuity of culture, with performances of various modern arts and visual arts, as well as many performances held in museums.
In addition, you can enjoy the famous river and lake scenery in Russia, as well as the trade fairs that have been ongoing for many years. These trade fairs have a long history, attracting merchants from all over the world, including Chinese merchants who once sold Chinese tea at these fairs. Tea is a very popular product, considered the gold standard, and some people even used the price of tea to price other goods. Thus, you can see the interaction between classical and modern arts.
More importantly, in bilateral relations, we need to enhance more continuity to better understand each other. Over the past thirty years, Russia is no longer the Soviet Union. Of course, Russia has a thousand-year-old cultural history and is also a culturally open country. Therefore, it is very normal for some Chinese movies and music to be very popular in Russia because we are willing to open our minds to experience Chinese culture. After all, China is a great country.
At the same time, for some young Russians, for example, those who want to understand Chinese history, they first need to recognize the continuity of Chinese history, which is reflected in all aspects of our daily lives. Therefore, we not only need to understand these traditional cultures and classics but also pay attention to some new cultural phenomena that have emerged in recent years. You can see that many art exhibitions and festivals are held in Russian regions, showcasing a rich diversity of cultural exchanges.
Wang Wen: This time when I went to Russia, I visited a previously unvisited new architectural site in Moscow — the Armed Military Cathedral located about 30 kilometers southwest of Moscow. It is said that this cathedral was built five years ago to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the victory in World War II. I'm not sure if you've been there. This time when I went to Russia, I headed straight to that awe-inspiring cathedral. The cathedral embodies Russia's concepts of war, military, and national defense, with magnificent architecture and extremely luxurious interior decorations.
What impressed me even more was that the base of the cathedral was made of steel melted down from tanks captured during the German fascist invasion of the Soviet Union, symbolizing Russia's determination and confidence to overcome enemies. I'm not entirely sure if my understanding is completely accurate, but this newly built cathedral certainly left a deep impression on me.
I would like to ask the next question: In the eyes of Chinese people, Russia is often regarded as the "Warrior Nation," demonstrating strong fighting spirit and a unique national image. As an outstanding political scientist, I would love to hear your opinion — in your view, is Russia really the nation called the "Warrior Nation"? How do Russians themselves understand war, military, and combat? What does this so-called "warrior spirit" mean for the Russian nation and the entire world?
Armed Military Cathedral of Russia
Anastasia Likhacheva (Anastasia Likhacheva): This still relates to the continuity I mentioned earlier. To understand Russia's battle history, you must certainly read history books, understand the causes and consequences of Russia's development as a nation, and how it has continued to grow stronger.
Russia is a vast country. When you wake up, you may not realize the importance of security issues, but in reality, the country's security situation can change dramatically overnight. Since Russia borders several countries, we must always consider how to ensure national security. To maintain the stability and security of the state, we must ensure 100% security without any doubt. Russia is neither an island country nor does it have得天独厚的 geographic advantages, allowing us to focus solely on developing other areas while ignoring security issues.
Therefore, our economic prosperity and quality of life are built on a foundation of security, and security issues must be addressed first. Otherwise, there will be no stable life, no continuous development, and no existence of the state. This security consciousness is deeply rooted in Russian culture because our country is vast, and security is particularly important to us.
Traditionally, China may also have similar aspects. Due to significant differences between many countries, as a populous and vast country, we must carefully consider how to govern effectively. Russia must first consider security issues; without ensuring security, it cannot take effective measures, and it is difficult to compare with some island nations. Therefore, in Russian culture, this is not an act of aggression but a prerequisite for economic or other forms of cooperation. For us, it is not about initiating wars, although a small portion of people may enjoy fighting, but the majority do not want to. Because Russia has experienced several generations of profound pain and suffering from blood and tears in World War II, this is a very dramatic change. At the same time, we understand that without proper preparation and ensuring our own security, the situation will not be ideal.
Wang Wen: I fully agree with your previous mention of Russia's anxiety and concern for security. I have been to western Russia, not only to Moscow and St. Petersburg but also to the south, such as Sochi, Volgograd, Krasnodar, and even Crimea, Rostov-on-Don on the Don River, and many other cities.
What impressed me most was that the western part of Russia, west of the Ural Mountains, is a vast East European Plain with hardly any mountains. I once drove hundreds of kilometers from Volgograd to Krasnodar, covering a distance of about five hundred kilometers; I also went to many cities like Volgograd to Rostov-on-Don. Especially the five-hundred-kilometer stretch from Volgograd to Rostov-on-Don, the terrain is flat, boundless, all plains, without any hills.
So, I thought about the past few centuries, as you mentioned, Russia has no natural barriers to resist wars. To defend against enemies from the West, from the early imperial era to resisting Napoleon, and then to World War I and II, we can see that once foreign invaders enter, tank battalions and cavalry units can easily enter Russian territory. This is unlike China, which has plateaus and deserts as natural barriers in the west. Therefore, under such security predicaments, Russia's concerns about security far exceed China's imagination. Based on this, I have many questions about Russia's future: What kind of security environment does Russia really need? How does Russia consider the future international security landscape?
Anastasia Likhacheva (Anastasia Likhacheva): I fully agree with your mention of natural barriers. Many people focus on this aspect of geopolitics, not only geographical but also positional, lacking natural safety barriers such as high mountains, large rivers, and deserts, so we pay more attention to our own security.
In recent years, we have gained a profound and rapid understanding of changes in the global security situation. Due to the increasing threats to security guarantees, whether it be drone attacks or cyberattacks, these attack methods are becoming cheaper, and the cost of launching attacks is also decreasing. At the same time, their impact and harm are extremely high, so we see challenges that are deeper and more diverse than those we have encountered before.
I believe that a sense of security means that every morning we can feel that our relationship with Russia is safe, and this requires us to stay away from or at least try to stay away from factors of war. Therefore, no single country can eliminate security risks solely on its own strength, which highlights the necessity of collective security.
However, in the 20th century, I didn't fully trust traditional models of collective security. But under new security concepts, we can effectively alleviate security risks. For example, domestic security issues may trigger international security risks, so we must redefine and reshape the concept of security. This is a very complex process. Although many people avoid political issues, we are working hard to address them. Globally, political power is closely linked to military power, and the current military revolution reflects this. We cannot simply switch positions or express skepticism because this is a new security challenge that cannot be ignored.
Wang Wen: Yes, over the past few years, Russia has undergone a profound and significant social, military, security, and ideological transformation. I have met many Russian scholars who are constantly reflecting and exploring. The smart technology revolution has brought both significant challenges and new possibilities for Sino-Russian future cooperation. Against the backdrop of the smart technology revolution represented by AI, big data, and cloud computing, what are the cooperation opportunities between China and Russia?
Anastasia Likhacheva (Anastasia Likhacheva): I firmly believe in the importance of technological models, believing that our cooperation potential is huge. Currently, we already have several joint projects in high-tech and information technology fields, such as collaborations between doctors and engineers, with remarkable achievements. I believe there will be more cooperation opportunities in the future. Both China and Russia have the ability to provide technical support. Everyone hopes to strengthen political-level management during the investment process, understand relevant standards and procedures. This not only opens more doors for cooperation but also allows enterprises to seek cooperation opportunities faster. If breakthroughs occur in some critical links of this high-tech revolution, it may bring far-reaching and significant impacts. However, I believe that to achieve this goal, a good regulatory environment is essential, and the current capabilities and responsibilities are embodied in government regulation.
Wang Wen: Yes, against the backdrop of the smart technology revolution, I believe Russia has some potential advantages, especially in physics and mathematics. Over the past thirty years, three Russian physicists have won the Nobel Prize in Physics. Russia's mathematical level is also very high, and there is a story: Huawei achieved a major breakthrough in the chip field reportedly because the founder of Huawei, Ren Zhengfei, invited a young Russian mathematician to help the company overcome some challenges in chip development. From this perspective, there are many opportunities for cooperation between China and Russia in the field of smart technology. I believe that through this perspective, we can discover many new cooperation opportunities.
We still have about ten minutes left. Do you have any questions, dear friends present today? If so, please feel free to ask.
Onsite Audience Question: Thank you, President Wang Wen. Today's dialogue is very timely and fits the current situation. I have benefited a lot. I have a small question to ask Professor Anastasia.
Everyone knows that the business cooperation between China and Russia is increasing, but either trade or business-to-business payments are mostly settled in US dollars. Therefore, I think the proportion of US dollars will gradually decrease, and the use of domestic currencies such as RMB and Ruble will increase. I would like to know the specific situation and timeline for this progress. Is there a plan for three or five years? Is it possible to settle in domestic currencies around 2028 or 2030? How fast is the pace of promoting settlement in domestic currencies? Can the US dollar be replaced by our own currency, and how quickly?
Anastasia Likhacheva (Anastasia Likhacheva): Thank you very much. This is a very sharp question.
First, I have limited knowledge of bilateral trade data, but part of the trade between China and Russia has already been settled in domestic currencies, which is a very natural trend.
Talking about changes in international payment systems, especially the status of the US dollar as a reserve currency, for Europe, recent data shows that the proportion of the US dollar in international reserve currencies is gradually surpassing the euro. Europe currently has some problems with its economic foundation and lacks strategic competitive advantages. In the past, Russia's energy resources and technological innovations reduced the share of the euro in international reserves, and the US dollar first replaced this part of the share because these two regions are essentially an alliance.
Regarding international payments, I believe that the use of various national currencies will grow rapidly, especially against the backdrop of Europe's economy continuing to weaken. This trend will become even more pronounced.
Onsite Audience Question: Now there are many people online saying that doing business with Russian enterprises carries the risk of being sanctioned by Europe and the US. According to my research, Sino-Russian relations are at their highest historical level, and I believe that both Chinese and Russian enterprises are very willing to expand their economic and trade cooperation. However, both sides face the risk of sanctions from Europe and the US, not only primary sanctions but also the secondary sanction risks proposed by the US. This makes many Chinese enterprises dare not expand cooperation with Russian enterprises because once the risk of secondary sanctions is triggered, they will not be able to conduct business with countries other than Russia. What is your view on this? What measures can Sino-Russian countries take to prevent such problems from happening?
Anastasia Likhacheva (Anastasia Likhacheva): Thank you very much. This is a very important discussion. This topic may lead to another dedicated discussion on politics, economy, and related issues, and may even require holding a forum.
First, such sanction risks do exist, and they are very serious; second, this can also be considered good news. Over the past three years, such sanctions have been global and universal, meaning that the whole world has been affected to varying degrees. However, the sanctions imposed by Europe and the US have not achieved their expected effects because we ultimately follow economic laws. Therefore, many countries have found cooperation opportunities.
Of course, the risk of sanctions still exists, and no entrepreneur will ignore the issue of sanctions. Everyone is very concerned. If we can find a way to obtain considerable profits despite the risks, that would be very valuable.
At the national level, I believe everyone will invest and carefully design some economic or