In early May, during the commemoration of the 80th anniversary of the victory in the Great Patriotic War, the editors of Observer Network divided into three groups to conduct research in Russia.
One of the themes we tried to understand during this period was how ordinary people, scholars, and historians in Russia view this history from 80 years ago, how they interpret the three-year-old conflict between Ukraine and Russia, and how China and Russia, with their shared historical memory, jointly resist the "Western centrism" distortion of the truth about World War II. In the current context of the collapse of the global old order, we also explored how to find new paths forward.
Andrei Kortunov, Academic Committee Chairman of the Russian International Affairs Council and a regular columnist for the Observer Network, met us at a World War II monument in the town of Zvenigorod, a western suburb of Moscow. Known as "Russia's Little Switzerland," Zvenigorod is characterized by clean streets, beautifully arranged houses, and an atmosphere of peace and tranquility. It is the Central Square's WWII monument that reminds people of the battles and destruction that once took place here 80 years ago.
On May 10, Andrei spoke about World War II history before a WWII monument in a suburban Moscow town.
June 22nd Should Be Remembered More
Observer Network: Russia has a tradition of celebrating Victory Day on May 9th of the Great Patriotic War. However, why do you emphasize June 22nd—the beginning of the Great Patriotic War—especially since in China, we also emphasize September 18th, which marks the beginning of the Anti-Japanese War and the outbreak of World War II? Every year on this day, sirens are sounded.
Andrei Kortunov: The memorial days in China and Russia differ slightly. For Russia, June 22nd is clearly a more tragic day—the start of the entire war. In my view, this is a clear dividing line in national history. Old life ends, and a new life full of sacrifice, hardship, and tears begins. This can be considered a significant turning point or threshold. It also simply symbolizes the resilience of the nation: even when in dire straits, even facing great challenges, even when most people believe the outcome is certain defeat, you must continue to fight, and if necessary, face death itself.
(The nature of the two countries' memorial days) differs so much. But in Russia, the end of the war is indeed a grand celebration, and this understanding is correct. However, I think the difference with China lies in the fact that there is disagreement in China over the specific time the war began. Some argue for 1937, while others believe it started earlier in 1931 with Japan's invasion of China, and some even claim the Sino-Japanese War actually began in the 19th century when Japan first showed its ambitions to invade China. Therefore, in Chinese narratives, there is no clear division between pre-war and post-war periods, whereas in our country (Russia), there is such a dividing line.
Observer Network: You may have watched the military parade commemorating the 80th anniversary of the victory in the Great Patriotic War on May 9th, and listened to President Putin's speech. What were your feelings?
Andrei Kortunov: First of all, this was an unprecedented event. The parades I've seen in recent years have been relatively simple compared to this one, which was very spectacular—and, I must say, this year it more directly showcased military power. After all, this is the 80th anniversary, and Moscow gathered many foreign guests.
During the military parade marking the 80th anniversary of the Soviet victory in the Great Patriotic War, Putin delivered a speech. Russian News Agency
This naturally holds important symbolic meaning for the current president, Putin. In my view, Victory Day is one of the few holidays that truly unite the people of this country. The commemoration of the communist revolution is controversial, with divided opinions; the day of the dissolution of the USSR also has great differences of opinion. But Victory Day allows Russian society to reach consensus—we stand together not only as Russians, but all former Soviet republics can share in the joy of this war victory and guard this memory. This is exactly why this Victory Day was so significant.
Observer Network: Let’s return to that article you wrote five years ago. You also mentioned that “every family in Russia experienced change or trauma during WWII.” Could you share your family story?
Andrei Kortunov: I belong to the first generation after the war, though I did not personally experience it, but I saw many who did. There were still many veterans on the streets of Moscow back then, wearing medals, and some had unfortunate injuries or disabilities. Even though so much time has passed, memories remain vivid. Of course, like all children, we played war games—the era certainly had a certain degree of romanticization of history. We watched war movies, listened to parents and their comrades talk about the hardships and achievements during wartime. To us, this was not distant history, but something tangible and felt.
Imagine, for our younger generations, this memory is gradually fading, and they may no longer have the vivid impressions of the post-Soviet war years. But I believe that even for them, Victory Day remains an important holiday, and the vast majority still maintain the tradition of celebrating this special day.
The distortion and manipulation of history are challenges faced by both countries
Observer Network: How do you view the historical revisionism that has been prevalent over the past few decades? As far as I know, over the past decade or so in some countries, monuments to Soviet martyrs during WWII have been destroyed or dismantled. Do you think this is also one of the causes of the conflict between Ukraine and Russia?
Andrei Kortunov: People often reconstruct history to explain and rationalize modern politics. Looking at the current Western narrative of world order, many try to simplify international relations into a dichotomy of "the Western liberal democratic camp" versus "authoritarian Eastern nations such as Russia and China." If following this black-and-white logic, it becomes difficult to understand the historical fact that the US and UK joined forces with the Soviet Union and China to combat Germany back then.
That's why—perhaps you remember that the White House press secretary and the Biden administration once claimed that "during WWII, it was the US and Ukraine that fought against Russia and Germany together," which is clearly a serious distortion of history. But such distortions make it easier to explain a complex world with simple frameworks.
In the same way, I believe that emphasizing America's decisive role in WWII is also a political norm for the current US president. His claim that the US contribution to the victory surpasses all other countries, including the Soviet Union, is also inconsistent with the facts. Following this logic, one could even argue that the true victor of the American Revolutionary War should be France—after all, Louis XVI provided substantial funding, tied down the British navy, and engaged in combat with the British on multiple fronts. But we all know who the real winner of the independence war was, and the same standard should be applied when evaluating the history of WWII.
Observer Network: You also pay high attention to Asian history. How do you view the phenomenon in some countries and governments distorting China's anti-Japanese war history and denying the 14-year resistance of the Chinese people?
Andrei Kortunov: I think there are various forms of historical distortion, not just one. Firstly, wars, especially the suffering during wartime, are often viewed through a Eurocentric lens. People discuss extensively the atrocities committed by Germany in Central Europe or the Holocaust of Jews—these are of course horrifying and should never be forgotten—but rarely mention the casualties inflicted by Japan in Asia, particularly on Chinese civilians. Even when comparing the scale of atrocities, it is astonishing, yet people choose to forget or at least rarely mention them.
Similarly, I believe that China's contributions to the victory of the war are often completely ignored or at least downplayed. When the West discusses the victory, the focus is always on the U.S. Navy and major battles in the Pacific. But Asia is not limited to the Pacific region—it includes vast continents. Examining the overall situation on the Asian battlefield, China's contributions should not be underestimated—it played an extremely crucial role in defeating Japan, and without China's containment, the Pacific War might have lasted much longer.
Observer Network: This year, our two countries celebrate the 80th anniversary of the victory over fascism together, which carries special significance. Do you think there is any opportunity for the two sides to cooperate in some form to jointly correct these historical cognitive biases?
Andrei Kortunov: I believe that China and Russia can and should work together to restore historical truth. This requires cooperation among historians—after all, there are still many mysteries surrounding the war, and many details remain to be clarified; it also requires joint efforts in explaining history to the public, at least ensuring that our people are not misled by Western narratives.
Additionally, I think efforts should also be made towards Western audiences. We don't need to deliberately belittle each other, nor should we ignore their contributions—any contribution deserves to be acknowledged and respected. But for those willing to listen, we have a responsibility to clarify the true face of the war and present the contributions of all parties within an objective comparison framework. This is the moral responsibility of intellectuals—not only historians, but also enlightened figures from all walks of life should participate in this enlightenment action. Because in the West, there are still many people willing to accept the truth—as long as the truth is revealed.
How to Better Tell the Truth of History to Younger Generations?
Observer Network: Just now you mentioned your younger generations, we or the younger generation are increasingly distant from the war era. Do you think there are innovative forms we can use to better tell the correct truths of World War II to younger generations?
Andrei Kortunov: Indeed, innovative forms are needed. We must convey historical truths in ways that appeal to young people. For example, the recent release of several heart-stirring films in China, such as the movie "The Battle at Lake Changjin" about the Korean War, has allowed many young viewers to rediscover history—this approach is very valuable and worth learning from.
The key lies in presenting historical facts in new forms. Young people usually do not read lengthy books or consult archives; they need more digestible content. We should fully leverage the power of social media and adopt diverse forms of "education through entertainment" to genuinely spark their interest.
Moreover, I believe that the inheritance of family memories is particularly important. Whether in Russia or China, countless families still cherish memories from eight or nine decades ago. These vivid family stories need to be preserved and passed on to the next generation in appropriate ways.
Films like "The Battle at Lake Changjin" can effectively encourage young people to learn about history
Speaking of films, you mentioned several well-known Soviet war films. I recall one film called "Fortress of War" (Battle for Sevastopol). Could you elaborate on its core theme?
Andrei Kortunov: Although this film isn't too old (it was made after the dissolution of the Soviet Union), it perfectly inherits the essence of classic Soviet war films—focusing on humanity, courage, and belief. The film contains many touching scenes, but what's particularly precious is that it is not a nationalist propaganda piece; it doesn't overly beautify Russians but realistically portrays the story of multi-ethnic resistance including Russians, Ukrainians, and Jews.
In a sense, this is a masterpiece with an internationalist spirit—this narrative style is very important—we must not let this great victory be monopolized by narrow nationalists. Just as we shouldn't overlook the contributions of the various Soviet republics and the Chinese people, if we want to treat history fairly, we should also remember that even within Germany, there were anti-war individuals and underground resistance group members who supported the Soviet Union—their contributions are also worthy of being remembered.
"Fortress of War" (Battle for Sevastopol)
The Significance of Victory Day for the Conflict in Ukraine and Russia
Observer Network: Our Chinese readers are also very concerned about the conflict between Ukraine and Russia. At the Victory Day parade, units of soldiers participating in the conflict between Ukraine and Russia appeared. Do you think such commemorative activities will inspire them to fight to the end?
Andrei Kortunov: From the Russian narrative perspective, this conflict is not simply a war between Ukraine and Russia—it is a confrontation between Russia and the West—this argument directly echoes the history of WWII: just as Russia had to respond to the existential threat from the West back then, so it must now.
However, it needs to be emphasized that Russian society does not harbor hostility toward the Ukrainian people, generally believing that the Ukrainian people were misled by international forces and drawn into the conflict. Once the conflict ends, I believe that the peoples of the two countries will gradually repair their relationship.
This is a painful topic for many of us—for countless Russians, there are relatives in Ukraine, and the two peoples have always been closely related; this bond cannot be completely severed. Although the current relationship between the two countries has suffered severe damage, we still hope that after the dust settles and time passes, the two neighboring countries can rebuild a more natural relationship. Of course, this will be a daunting challenge.
Observer Network: Or, through commemorating the shared historical memory of the Great Patriotic War, do you think it can help the peoples of the two countries heal their rifts? I know this may be overly idealistic, but I would like to know how you think about it?
Andrei: I don't know, but we often seek comfort in history. Take the reconciliation between France and Germany as an example—they spent decades truly stepping out of the shadow of war, but today it is unimaginable for them to engage in armed conflict again.
The situation in Asia is more complex: even after decades since the end of WWII, historical issues persist between Japan and South Korea—South Korea believes Japan lacks sincere repentance, while some Japanese still consider themselves victims of the war. The relationship between China and Japan is also sensitive, with Chinese citizens expecting more apologies, while many Japanese believe sufficient compensation has already been made.
These examples show that the road to reconciliation between Russia and Ukraine will inevitably be long and arduous, possibly requiring several generations to heal the wounds of war and rebuild normal relationships. History tells us: true reconciliation not only requires time but also the courage to confront history head-on.
In the Nuclear Age, How to Avoid the Outbreak of a Third World War?
Observer Network: Recently, I have had exchanges with several Russian historians and some young Russians. They generally believe that the main goal of commemorating the victory over fascism for 80 years is to draw lessons from the two World Wars. You know, there are still many small conflicts happening in many places around the world today. Besides the conflict between Ukraine and Russia, there are also conflicts between India and Pakistan, our two neighbors, and the endless conflict between Israel and Palestine. There may be a clash of arms across the Taiwan Strait between China and the United States. Many of the countries involved in these conflicts possess nuclear weapons. So, in the age of nuclear weapons, how can we draw lessons from the victory over fascism to avoid the outbreak of a third World War?
Andrei Kortunov: First, please allow me to make an observation that is troubling: humanity is going through a difficult transitional period. The old order built on the ruins of WWII has lost its effectiveness and is collapsing before our eyes, but the new order has yet to take shape. Today, powerful forces still cling to the old order—those with vested interests lack the imagination to build a new order, while visionaries are often marginalized as "detached idealists from reality." This is the root cause of the profound crisis in the global governance system, and all the conflicts you mentioned are products of this crisis.
On May 15th, anti-India rallies by Pakistani students. Agence France-Presse
But fortunately, if we set aside the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, it seems that other conflict parties can avoid large-scale wars. Take the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as an example, where both sides use strong rhetoric but strictly adhere to red lines; in the Taiwan Strait issue, neither China nor the US intends to resort to force; even in the conflict between India and Pakistan, I believe (perhaps this judgment is overly optimistic) that another large-scale war won't happen. We will eventually get through this crisis, but at a cost.
We are currently in the historical town of Zvenigorod, about 30 miles west of Moscow. Due to its unique geographical location, all invading armies from the west must pass through this area—the Polish army in the 17th century, Napoleon's army in the 19th century, and the German army also advanced to within 800 meters of the city center during WWII. The village where I live was burned down by the Germans, and war relics can still occasionally be found in the forest. Although small, Zvenigorod is steeped in historical weight, and its WWII monument honors the fallen residents and nearby soldiers. As you can see, local residents still express their remembrance of the fallen heroes with flowers, which is moving.
The two statues in the distance are named heroes. During the Soviet era, anyone who received the title of "Hero of the Soviet Union" twice had the right to be immortalized in such half-body bronze statues. The ones you see here are local heroes who earned prestigious medals in WWII and thus deserve special commemoration. But many sacrifices are no longer individually identifiable—many soldiers went missing and their remains were never found; the casualties were indeed too heavy. Here lie numerous Russian soldiers, as well as many German soldiers, because the Germans considered this the shortest route to Moscow.
This largest statue is a symbolic image of a Red Army soldier, possibly inspired by certain real-life prototypes. The inscription reads: "To the Viyazma Townsmen and the Fifth Army of the Western Front who sacrificed their lives for the Motherland." From November to December 1941, in the freezing cold of minus forty degrees Celsius, fierce fighting took place on this land—here the German army was held back, and the following January, the Red Army launched a counteroffensive from here, advancing over a hundred miles to the west.
During the Great Patriotic War, artillery fire flattened many buildings here. During the siege, civilians tried to flee, some withdrawing to Moscow, while others unfortunately perished under German artillery and air raids. This small town bears too many painful memories.
Therefore, everyone who has experienced the pain of war and loves peace, I believe, does not wish for such wars to happen again.
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